Monday, 20 March 2017

Place Names

Ireland

Our England line emanates from Cork City in 1785 but we are unsure where these Englands were prior to this. A red circle ● indicates a direct line ancestor to the children of Tom and Gwen England (nèe Hicks).


Cork City

Guy's map of Cork city 1891 (click to expand) [via www.corkcity.ie]

Ardeevin:

An area of Cork City very close to the University College Cork. 

John England, born in Bandon in 1825, the youngest child of Michael and Mary (nèe Bransfield) lived at College View, 30 Sunday's Well Rd.

He married Jane O'Connell on the 21st of July 1863 at St Finbarr's, Cork and had six children. Jane died in 1874 aged 41. Three years later he married Jane's sister, Susanna, known as Nannie.

University College, Cork
Photo: © raps [CC BY-SA]

John became Professor of Natural Philosophy at Cork University in 1855 and held that post until 1894.

Minnie, John's second daughter, lived at Ardeevin with her father as noted in the 1901 and 1911 census. She never married.

In the 1911 census John Joseph England, a civil engineer and eldest son of John and Jane was living at Ardeevin with his father

John died on the 18th of March 1916 and was buried with his second wife, Nannie, his sister, Nora and a daughter, Minnie at St Joseph's Cemetery. Nora, his sister, had died on the 14th of October 1913 at 2, Ardeevin. She was a 92 year old spinster.

Blarney Lane

In the Sunday's Well area of North West Cork. Blarney Lane became Blarney St. 

 Thomas, a tobacconist, his wife Honora (nèe Lordan) and Edward the fifth child, lived and worked in this area of Cork. Edward had premises at numbers 305 and 395.

Cork School of Music:

In 1882 Elizabeth Reynolds, who later married Thomas Alphonsus England, entered this school where her teachers were Mr T. J. Sullivan, Herr Swertz and Mons de Prins. After passing her exams she left the school in 1887.

Gerald Griffin St:

Elizabeth England, the seventh child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan), entered the convent of the Presentation sisters here on the 21st of November 1811, aged 15, and took the religious name of Sister Catherine of Sienna. On November 21st 1814 she took her final vows. 

Grand Parade

One of the main commercial streets in Cork city. 


Grand Parade, Cork
Photo: © Andrew Wood [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Anne Barry (nèe England), the fourth child of Thomas and Honora lived here at number 72, opposite Great George St. She was born in 1794 and married a merchant, Michael Barry, in 1813, at St Mary's, Cork and had seven children.

Anne died around 1832, aged 38. 

Anne's daughter, Cath died here in April 1833, aged 13. Another daughter, Eliza, died here aged 14 in December 1833. Cholera was raging through the city at the time.


Queen's College

Thomas Alphonsus England, the third son of Professor John and Jane (nèe O'Connell) obtained honours in his law degree here in 1895 and qualified as a solicitor the following year.

Patrick Joseph England, the youngest son of Professor John and Jane (nèe O'Connell) studied medicine at the college and qualified as a doctor in 1899.

Queenstown: (Now known as Cobh

A tourist seaport town on the south side of Great Island in Cork Harbour. It was renamed Cobh in the late 1920s. 

The Old Town Hall, Cobh
Photo: © N Chadwick [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Professor John England gave a public lecture here on the Transatlantic Telegraph in 1857.* 

Facing the town is Spike Island mentioned in ‘The Second Child.’

*(The Cork Examiner, 13.8.1857)

Spike Island

An island of one hundred and three acres in Cork Harbour. It remained in use as a garrison and prison throughout the Irish War of Independence when IRA prisoners were held there. The prison closed in 2004 and is now a tourist site. 

Fort Michell on Spike Island
Photo: © Kondephy [CC SA 4.0]

Thomas England, the second child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan), was a chaplain to the convicts on the island.

St Finbarr's, (South,) Church

In Dunbar Street. It is the oldest Catholic Church in the city and was built in 1766. It is very close to St Fin Barre's Cathedral owned by the Church of Ireland.

On the 8th of April, 1785 Thomas England married Honora Lordan at the church.

On the 23rd of March 1794, Mary Bransfield was baptised here. She became the wife of Michael, the third child of Thomas and Honora England (nèe Lordan).

John, the first child of Thomas and Honora, was consecrated Bishop here on the 29th of September 1820.

 George St:

Michael Barry, son of Michael and Anne (nèe England) died at number 109, aged 72.

South Mall: 

One of the main streets in Cork city. 

South Mall, Cork City
Photo: © Charles Curling [CC BY-SA 4.0]

Philip O'Connell, a solicitor, the father of Jane and Susanna O'Connell who both married Professor John England, lived here.

John Joseph, the eldest son of Professor John England and Jane O'Connell, was born at 37, South Mall in 1866. It was the family home of his mother, Jane.

St Joseph's Cemetery, Cork

Buried in the same grave are Professor John England, his second wife Susanna, (Nannie) his daughter Mary, (Minnie) and his sister Honora. (Nora).

 Michael Barry, son of the fourth child, Anne (nèe England), is also buried at the cemetery. He died on January 23rd 1889 and his grave was " unmarked, unhonoured...but it adjoins the pathway about twenty yards on the right of the entrance to the inner burial plot."

St Mary and St Anne's Cathedral

At the top of Shandon Street and is known locally as the North Cathedral. It was dedicated as a cathedral in 1808. 

The Cathedral of St Mary and St Anne, Cork
Photo: John Armagh [Public Domain]

The first ordination to take place in the church was that of the first child - John England on the 10th of October,1808. It was here that he spoke out about British interference in religious matters and this obviously annoyed the government establishment in Cork who complained to the Bishop, John Murphy. He in turn removed John England from the cathedral to Bandon. See corkandross.org/churchHistory 

Michael, the third child of Thomas and Honora was baptised here on the 15th of June 1792.

Anne England married Michael Joseph Barry in 1813 at the church. The celebrant was John England, the eldest child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan).

Edward England, the fifth child of Thomas and Honora, married Emily Nunan on the 19th of July 1819.

Thomas Alphonsus England, the third son of John and Jane (nèe O'Connell), was baptised here on the 9th of September 1869 having been born two days earlier.


St Patrick's Street

The main shopping street in Cork city. 

St Patrick St, Cork
Photo: © Colin Park [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Edward, the fifth child of Thomas and Honora England (nèe Lordan), had a tobacconist shop here at number 1. His son, John, took over the business and went bankrupt in 1870.

In 1853 The Southern Reporter of the 12th of November 1853 noted: "The Englands have a tobacconists at 1, St Patrick St and live at 406, Blarney Lane."


Sunday’s Well

A suburb of Cork situated in the north west of the city on a ridge on the northern bank of the River Lee.

St Vincent's Church on Sunday's Well Rd
Photo: © Robin Webster [CC BY-SA 2.0]

From letters written by Thomas to his brother John we know that the house here extended from Sunday's Well to the river and was opposite the county gaol.

In 1866, John Joseph England, the eldest son of Professor John England and Jane O'Connell was born. The father's address was given as 36, Sunday's Well.

When John's brother Thomas, an architect in San Francisco, wrote to him, he addressed the letters to 30, Sunday's Well. 

Michael England, the third child of Thomas and Honora died at 79 Sunday's Well on the 21st of October, 1870. This was where his son John lived. (Note again the change in the number from the above). 

'Pop' England, the youngest child of  John and Jane (nèe O'Connell) was born at Sunday's Well Road.

Winter’s Hill

Situated in the district of Sunday’s Well, Cork. It is off Blarney Lane. It is another area that crops up frequently with the Englands. 

For example, Edward England, the fifth child of Thomas and Honora (née Lordan), died at Winter's Hill in 1858. 

Irish Counties


[From Wikimedia Commons]

County Cork

Bandon

A town in County Cork. It is nineteen miles south west from Cork City and is famous for its inscription on the city wall. 
  Entrance to Jew, Turk or Atheist any man except a papist.  
[Then the wry response written underneath.]
                    The man who wrote this wrote it well, For the same is writ on the Gates of Hell.

In the 2011 census it had a population of nearly seven thousand.

Main St, Bandon
Photo: Robert French [Public Domain]

John England, the first child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan) was a curate in the town between 1816-1820. 

Michael England, the third child of Thomas and Honora also lived and worked as a tobacconist here at South Maine St. and 11, Bridge St. His daughter, Honora, known as Nora was baptised in the town on the 9th of April 1821.

In 1861, at the Devonshire Arms Hotel, Professor John England gave a lecture on 'Light' to the Bandon Scientific and Literary Society. (See Southern Reporter, 12.1.1861) 

Dunderrow

A small village in County Cork. It is located between Innishannon – four and a half miles away and Kinsale – four miles away. 

Guilday, the biographer of John, the first child of Thomas and Honora, stated that this village was where Honora Lordan met Thomas England.

Enniskean/e

A village twenty seven miles south west of Cork City. It lies between Bandon and Dunmanway.
Dunderrow is thirty kilometres to the east. 

Cottages in Enniskean
Photo: © Jonathan Thacker [CC BY-SA 2.0]

The Bandon Parish Bulletin stated that this village was the birthplace of Honora England (nèe Lordan).

Fermoy

A town on the River Blackwater in County Cork. It is twenty seven miles north east of Cork City and lies between Bandon and Dunmanaway. 

Fermoy View
Photo: © Liam Murphy [CC BY-SA 2.0]


Bishop John England, the first child of Thomas and Honora, (nèe Lordan) travelled to Fermoy to see his mother, before he left for America in 1820. 

Glanmire

A small town six miles from Cork City. 

Father Thomas England, the second child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan), was a priest here for a short time. 

Killavullen

A village twenty miles north of Cork City. Nano Nagle, founder of the Presentation Sisters, was born in Ballygriffin, near to Killavullen, in 1718. 

Father Thomas England, not the second child of Thomas and Honora was a parish priest at Killavullen and there is a monument to him in the church yard.

Passage West

A port town ten miles south east of Cork City. 

Passage West
Photo: © David Dixon [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Father Thomas England, the second child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan), was a parish priest here and died in the town in 1847.

Rochestown

A parish situated between Passage West and Douglas. It is about five miles south east of Cork and four miles west of Passage West. 

A Joseph England, a bankrupt tobacco manufacturer, had owned  143 acres of land here.

Youghal

A seaside resort town thirty five miles away from Cork City. 

Father Thomas England, not the second child, was the parish priest here.

County Tipperary

Bourney

A parish in county Tipperary, four and a half miles from Rosecrea. 

Edward the fifth child, Ellen the sixth and Richard the eighth may have had land in Bonagortbaun, Bourney.

County Kildare

Clane

A town in County Kildare twenty miles from Dublin.

Clongowes Wood College: 

Clongows College, Clane
Photo: © leftofcentresayshi [CC BY-SA 3.0]

Just outside Clane, is a secondary boarding school founded in 1814 and run by the Jesuits. It has educated many pupils who have gone on to play important roles in Irish political, social, sporting and literary life: James Joyce, John Bruton, former Taoiseach of Ireland, Rob Keaney and Gordon D’Arcy, Irish Rugby and British Lions players, Oliver St. John Gogarty, surgeon, writer and critic, Michael O’Leary, CEO of Ryanair, Pat Reid, British officer who escaped from Colditz and Paul McGuiness former manager of Irish rock band U2.

It is probable that Edward Joseph England, the journalist and son of the fifth child, attended the college.

Maynooth

A university town in north County Kildare. Part of the university is Ireland’s main Roman Catholic Seminary. 

Father Thomas England, the second child of Thomas and Honora (nèe Lordan), was at Maynooth between 1812 and 1815. 

Two other Englands were seminarians here - Thomas and Henry.

Dublin

Rathgar

Now a suburb of Dublin. It lies about two miles south of the city centre. 

Michael Barry, son of Michael and Anne (nèe England), lived at 13, Rathgar Rd and was a magistrate in the city for a time.

Thomas Alphonsus England, the third son of John and Jane (nèe O'Connell) and his wife Elizabeth, the pianist, lived in this area after leaving London. Thomas died on the 16th of February 1944 at the Mater Misericordiae Hospital, Dublin. He and Elizabeth lived at 9, Rostrevor Rd, Rathgar.

Rathmines

A suburb on the south side of Dublin about two miles south of the city centre. It stretches along the Rathmines road as far as Rathgar to the south. 

Michael Barry, son of the fourth child, Anne England, nearly drowned in the canal here at Portobello Bridge. Some of his contemporaries wished he had!

County Waterford

Cappoquin

A town in west County Waterford. Its railway opened in 1878 and was served by the Cork to Rosslare boat train. The ferry operates from Rosslare to Fishguard, West Wales. 

Main Street, Cappoquin
Photo: © Jonathan Billinger [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Josephine England (nèe Walsh) gave this as her town of residence before her marriage to 'Pop' England, the youngest son of John and Jane (nèe O'Connell).

Farnane

John Walsh, was born in Ballybrusa, Grange in 1770 and died at Farnane on May 11th 1838. His wife was Johanna Sheehan of Knockgarraun, Cappagh. They had six sons and one daughter. One of their sons was David and he inherited a shop at Millstreet crossroads. He had nine children. 

One of them was Josephine who married Dr Patrick (Pop) England. 

Another daughter, known as Sis, married Pat Walsh, a native of Clogheen, Co Tipperary. He had an agricultural supply business in Cardiff. This was the mysterious 'uncle' who lived in Penarth and at 65, Cardiff Rd, Llandaff with Tom and Gwen England. It was at 65, where he died.

Kilrush

A district north west of Waterford City centre. 

It's a possibility that Josephine England (nèe Walsh) lived in this area.

County Carlow

Carlow:

The county town of County Carlow. It is situated in the south east of Ireland, fifty miles from Dublin and one hundred and fifteen miles from Cork. 

The college opened in 1793 and was notable for educating many Catholic priests. John, the first child of Thomas and Honora, was here in 1803 and there is now a lecture hall called the John England room. There is also an oil painting, of the bishop, by Haverty, at the college. 

Thomas, the second child of Thomas and Honora, also attended the college from 1809 to 1812

County Westmeath

Mullingar

The county town of County Westmeath forty nine miles from Dublin. 

Sheila England, though born in Dublin, lived in the town for a time. She was the wife of Bernard, the fourth child of Pop and Josephine.

Wales

Cardiff

Canton

A suburb two miles west of Cardiff city centre. Ethnically diverse it is also the most Welsh-speaking district of the capital city. 

89, Cowbridge Road, the family home of 'Pop' and Josephine England is in Canton.

Cowbridge Road

West of Cardiff city centre and in the district of Canton. 

The Former St David's Hospital
Photo: © Eddie Read [CC BY-SA 2.0]

Number eighty nine became, after number eighty seven, the family home of Patrick and Josephine England and after their deaths became the same for Tom and Gwen England until they moved to sixty five, Cardiff Road, Llandaff. St David's Hospital was just across the road from 89.

Farnane, Western Avenue

The home of Dr Pat and Nora England (nèe Floyd). Pat was the eldest son of  Patrick and Josephine.

Llandaff

A district in the north of Cardiff. Llandaff cathedral features the aluminium figure of Christ in Majesty by Jacob Epstein.

Tom, Gwen and their seven children lived at 65, Cardiff Rd. Tom died there on the 9th of December 1967. His sister, Monica lived at 186, Cardiff Rd.

Riverside:

An inner-city area next to the river Taff.

Pop England, the youngest son of  Professor John and Jane (nèe O'Connell), lived at Neville St before his marriage to Josephine in 1904.

Splott

A suburb of Cardiff in the south of the city. 

John Humphrys, BBC radio and television presenter was born there and Shirley Bassey, though born in nearby Tiger Bay, moved to Splott aged two. She was, apparently, a patient of Dr Tom England. [Can someone ask Shirley to verify this!]

St David's Church:

In Charles St and now a cathedral.

Pop England, the youngest son of Professor John and Jane (nèe O'Connell) married Josephine Walsh here on the 26th of November 1904.

The Heath

A district in the north of Cardiff. The University Hospital of Wales was built on the site of the former Heath Wood. 

Before her marriage, Joan Destiny England (nèe Cullen) lived here. Her husband, Philip was the fifth child of Pop and Josephine.

The Royal Infirmary:

On Newport Rd.

It was here that Tom England, a doctor, met Gwen Hicks a nurse. The rest is ...


Rest of Wales

Ammanford

A former coal mining town in the county of Carmarthenshire. 

It was the birthplace of Gwen England and her eldest child at 8 Union St.

Clydach on Tawe

A village six miles north east of Swansea. 

Nora Doreen England (nèe Floyd) was born near here. She married Patrick, the second child of Pop and Josephine.

Southerndown

A village south west of Bridgend and close to Llantrisant Major and Ogmore. It is twenty five miles west of Cardiff. 

The beach there was a favourite of the Englands and Dalys.

England

Hull

Patrick Joseph England, the youngest son of Professor John and  Jane, was an assistant to a Dr Gautby  in 1901. He was living at 48, Carr Lane, in the parish of Holy Trinity and St Mary.

London:

In the 1901 census a Thomas Aplonson (Alphonsus?) England, 31, was boarding at Streatham. He had been born in Cork and was a civil servant. (We know from family letters that he was a civil servant at Somerset House.)

In 1907, at Fulham, the marriage of Thomas Alphonsus England and Elizabeth Reynolds was registered. (April-May-June).

In 1911 Thomas England and Elizabeth Reynolds were living at 18, Aynhoe Mansions, Brook Green, Hammersmith. 

On the 9th of October 1931 John Joseph England, the eldest son of John and Jane (nèe O'Connell), died at 20, Luxemburg Gardens, Hammersmith. This was now the home of his brother Thomas Alphonsus and his wife Elizabeth Reynolds. 

Mossley Hill

A district of Liverpool. It is located to the south of the city. The Beatles song ‘Penny Lane’ is named after a street within Mossley Hill. 

Phina England, the eldest child of  'Pop' and Josephine was an enclosed Poor Clare nun at the Green Lane convent for many years. Her religious name was Sister Mary Colette. (See William Imrie, ship owner, and his connection with the Poor Clares).

Toxteth

An inner city area of Liverpool. It is located to the south of the city. 

Edward Joseph England, journalist and son of the fifth child, lived at 75 Berkley St, North Toxteth. He married Charlotte Adelaide Shaw on the 26th of November 1879 at St Peter's chapel, Liverpool and then lived at 83, Mulgrave St, Toxteth.

Prestwich

A small town three and a half miles north of Manchester and five miles south of Bury. The mental asylum here was one of the largest in Europe. 

Edward Joseph England, journalist and son of the fifth child, died in the asylum in 1884.

Germany

Altenburg

A city in Thuringia, Germany. It is twenty five miles south of Leipzig and fifty six miles west of Dresden. 

Elizabeth England (nèe Reynolds) played a concert here in the early years of the twentieth century.

Offenburg: 

A city located in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany It has a population of nearly sixty thousand. The French city of Strasbourg lies fifteen miles away, directly west across the Rhine. 

Jane and her sister Mary (Minnie), daughters of Professor John England and Mary Bransfield, were at school here for two years in 1880 and 1881.

Jane, the eldest daughter, born on the 31st of May 1864 at Sunday's Well, became a nun here, aged 21, in 1885.  Jane's religious name was Sister Mary Benedicta.

USA


Charleston

John, the first child of Thomas and Honora arrived here on the 30th of December 1820 and became the city's first Catholic Bishop.

Joanna Monica, John's sister, had accompanied him here in 1820. She became an editor of a page in the United States Catholic Miscellany. She died of yellow fever on the 15th of October 1827 and was buried in the crypt of what is now the Cathedral of St John the Baptist.

In 1835 John opened a school for free negroes and seven years later on the 11th of April 1842 he died here from enteritis. He was buried in the same crypt as his sister. 

Grass Valley

The largest city in the western region of Nevada County, California. Many of those who came to settle in Grass Valley were tin miners from Cornwall whose skills were ideal for mining gold. 

Thomas England, the architect, designed St Patrick's cathedral here. On the 23rd of January 1860, The Cork Examiner stated:

The church of St Patrick is the most beautiful and harmonious structure in the state and a perfect specimen of Gothic architecture. St Patrick's was designed and the work conducted by Thomas England and it is exceedingly creditable to him.

Philadelphia

Ursuline nuns accompanied Bishop John England to the city arriving from Ireland on the 11th of November 1834.

Thomas England, the second child of  Michael and Mary (nèe Bransfield) arrived in the city on the 17th of October 1848 aged 25 and two years later was living at Pine Ward. In 1851 he was at 118 South 4th St. On the 9th of March 1852 he left the city for San Francisco. Whilst here he trained as an architect.  

San Francisco:

The cathedral of  St Mary the Immaculate Conception was designed by Thomas, the second child of Michael and Mary England (nèe Bransfield) and his partner William Craine. Thomas was in the cathedral when an earthquake occurred in the city in 1865. The cathedral was destroyed in the earthquake of 1906. 

Other buildings in the city designed by Thomas included: St Mary's College and the church of St Francis.

From 1862 to 1865 Thomas had premises at 528, Clay, San Francisco and from 1867 to 1868 he had an architect's office at 622, Clay.

At a meeting at the Union Hall in 1865 Thomas attended a meeting of The Brotherhood whose aim was to raise money for the procurement of arms in a war against England. 

Thomas, 46, died from consumption here on the 23rd of October 1869 and was buried at the Calvary Cemetery. In 1930 his remains were moved to the Holy Cross Cemetery, Colma.

San Jose

A town about forty eight miles from San Francisco. 

Thomas, the architect, son of Michael the third child, visited the Jesuit College there.
Stockton

A town about seventy five miles from San Francisco. 

Thomas the architect designed a small church there.

Australia

Collingwood

A suburb of Melbourne, Australia. 

Father Henry England was a parish priest in this part of Melbourne.

Chile

Valparaiso

 In Chile. It is one of the South Pacific's most important seaports. The city served as a major stopover for ships travelling between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. 

Thomas England, the architect, stopped here on his way to San Francisco.

Acknowledgements:
The wealth of material unearthed by Carol Jones and Michael England helped enormously in the writing of this blog. Many thanks to them.

Elaine, my sister, made many valuable additions and, perhaps more importantly, many important subtractions to the text.

Andy, thank you for your expertise with all the images and maps. They added greatly to the writing.
A big thank you to the library staff of Thame and Chinnor libraries, Oxfordshire. Having free access to Ancestry, Find My Past and most importantly The British Newspaper Archive was a huge incentive to start and finish the history of the family.

More of my writing:

July 2019

thecriticalcommentator.blogspot.co.uk

The critical commentator examines stories from the media. It questions some current beliefs and explanations of events and shows a healthy scepticism of received wisdom. 

See BBC News Website 20.9.2018 

The article was: My Holiday with the Afghan Mujahideen, based on the book:

Going Inside: Memoir of an Afghan Holiday with Rahmatullah Safi 1988

Rahmatullah Safi was a general in a mujahideen group fighting the Russians. I was deputy head at Robertswood, the primary school in this blog,* and a neighbour of his in the UK. In 1988 Safi invited me to visit him in Pakistan and to go ‘inside’ Afghanistan. Going Inside is the diary of that journey: from Peshawar to Gardez and back again. You can preview part of the book by clicking on the cover here ...


The book is available in Kindle ebook edition at £5.55 and a paperback version costing £8.50 (book price may vary depending on the retailer ... plus packing and postage).
These can be bought through any Amazon store, not only the UK.



*Brittany in June - a blog turned ebook on the joys, trials and tribulations of taking groups of schoolchildren to Brittany over many years.

brittanyschooltrip.blogspot.co.uk

Thanks

John England

Monday, 13 March 2017

Various Englands and Various Questions.



During the course of our research we came across many Englands. No doubt some of them are directly linked to our particular family but we don't know for sure. This is a list that tries to give some sense of a stronger or weaker connection to our family. Timing, place, naming conventions [1] and links with other families, can all be factors to make a connection stronger. [Please note, as throughout this blog, dates are in the British style of day-month-year.]

Bear in mind: 1785 marriage - 1812 (Thomas's death), 1820 Honora's death

Before 1785, we are led to believe that Thomas England was not in Cork and that his remaining family (two younger brothers and sisters) were elsewhere in Ireland. Guilday [2] in his biography of Thomas' son John, implies that Thomas came from County Tipperary.

We don't know the names of the brothers and sisters or whether they came to Cork after Thomas settled there. But, there were naming conventions used in Ireland strongly from the late 1700s to the 1900s, and this might help with some of the Englands mentioned here. So, 'familiar' names might be closer connected, with unusual names possibly coming in from a wife's naming line. (See the naming convention reference for more details on this practice). These are tenuous links but are the beginning of leads in the scheme of genealogy.

Early Englands with stronger place and name connection. (Cork)

Births [b:] baptism [bap:] Marriages [m:] Deaths [d:] Sponsors and Witnesses [wit:]

John England bap: 4-7-1802. Parents: Timothy England and Catherine England, of Bishop’s Lane, Cork. sponsors: James England and Honora England. (Lordan?) at St Finbarr’s, Cork.
England connection: Timothy is not associated with the Cork Englands at this time through naming convention, but if the witness is Honora England, wife of Thomas England, then this should mean a stronger familiar connection to this Timothy because sponsors are usually known to the people involved and invited to be sponsors. Could Timothy be Thomas' brother? James England here is not Honora's seventh son, James, as he was born 1805, but it is a familial name. This James might be the same James as a witness in 1792 under The Hierlithy family connection below.
Thomas England bap: 1814. The sponsors were Edward and Ellen England  The celebrant was Thomas England.
England connection: Thomas and Honora's twins were Edward and Ellen (bap: 1795) and Thomas, the celebrant, was their second son who became a priest. This coincidence makes a stronger connection to this Thomas and his parents.

Margaret/Mary England bap: 1-11-1812 at St Mary’s, Cork. The parents were Michael England and Mary Haynes. The sponsors were ? [unclear] Hynes and Honora England. The baptism was undertaken by the Rev. John England.
England connection: Although Michael England's marriage to Mary Haynes (Hynes?) did not include any other Englands as witnesses, it is significant that their first daughter is sponsored by Honora England (Lordan?), she is alive until 1820, and the ceremony was performed by Rev John England - Thomas and Honora's son before he is made Bishop and leaves for Charleston. This makes this connection to Michael and Mary stronger. Also, as Thomas had died within the previous year, it might make this ceremony more significant by Michael and Mary including Honora and John, and naming the baby Thomas. Could Michael be a nephew by Thomas' brother?)

"In 1814 there was the death of a Miss Eliza England, daughter of the late Mr Thomas England of Blarney Lane."
England connection: From Carol Jones' research, no specific reference. As present day Michael England, son of Philip England, commented, “Is this another child we don’t know about?” [Despite searching the Cork and Dublin newspapers, there is no mention of a Miss Eliza England connected with Thomas England that can now be found.]

Joanna England and Thomas O’Keefe were wit: John Seymour and Grace Bransfield, 11-1-1819 St. Mary’s, Cork.
England connection: This Joanna could be the fourth daughter of Thomas and Honora (bap: 1801) as she went to America in 1820 with her brother and died there. This Grace could be her cousin as her brother, Michael married Mary Bransfield in 1815. This would make Michael Grace's brother-in-law and Mary's sister.)

Very Early Cork Englands

Register of Burials at St. Peter’s Parish, City of Cork.

13-1-1761 - child of James England,
England connection: Thomas and Honora seventh and last son's name (bap:1805))
3-11-1762 - John England
England connection: Thomas and Honora's  firstborn son's name (bap: 1786))
6-11-1762 - Thomas England
England connection: There are a lot of Thomas Englands in our line and as we don't know about the line prior to 1785, any Thomases are of interest. As the naming convention suggests, names run in families. But this is as far as we can conjecture here.
17-11-1762 - William England.
(not a name associated with our Cork line, possibly from a wife's naming line?)
19-7-1765 - Martha England
(not a name associated with our Cork line, possibly from a wife's naming line?)
13-3-1768 - William England
(not a name associated with our Cork line, possibly from a wife's naming line?)
23-7-1780 - Elizabeth England
England connection: Thomas and Honora's third daughter (bap:1796) as we understand, but according to naming convention this name should have been 'Honora' - the mother's name - and it clearly isn't. Had the couple already named a child that died Honora?
20-8-1799 - Thomas England 
England connection: There are a lot of Thomas Englands in our line and as we don't know about the line prior to 1785, any Thomases are of interest. As the naming convention suggests, names run in families. But this is as far as we can conjecture here.  
                            ......................................................................................................


John England m: Cath Ryan, 14-2-1773, at St Peter and Paul’s, Cork
England connection: Thomas and Honora called their firstborn son John (bap: 1786) but this John is a contemporary of Thomas and Honora so is maybe his brother?
Hanna England: bap: 3-5-1790 at St Peter and Paul’s, Cork. The parents were John England and Ellen Haye.
England connection: Hanna appears later in 1823 as the first daughter of Edward and Amelia England of our line, but then is more likely to be a naming convention from Amelia's line; her mother, for example. This name is not strongly associated to our line at this time.

St Finbarr's Cork

This church features prominently in Thomas and Honora's lives as they married there. They lived in this part of the city, Blarney Lane, so it was presumably their local church and would have been significant to them. This church survives today. At that time it was often referred to as 'South Parish' and should not be confused with St Finbarr's Cathedral of today. Many other people attending the South Parish church would have been known to them, most likely, since the church was a greater part of people's lives than today, just like family connections. Thomas and Honora were strong Catholics. Thomas had been imprisoned for his faith like his father before him. However, their children were baptised in St Mary's, the Catholic Cathedral of that time, not in St Finbarr's, South Parish.

Michael England bap: 20-12-1791 at St Finbarr’s, Cork. The parents were John England and Betty Keefe. The sponsors were William Waters and Anne Whelan.
England connection: This John England is a contemporary of Thomas and Honora, possibly his brother? Thomas and Honora named their third son Michael (bap:1792), so Michael features in our line too. Note: the third son in naming convention is usually named after the father, so this flouts that. However, the second son was called already called Thomas (maybe Honora's father's name was Thomas) which would have made the third son being called Thomas irrelevant.

Judith England m: John Ahern and then had Mary bap: 25-11-1809, Michael bap: 11-9-1811 and Ellen bap: 5-3-1820 all at St. Finbarr’s,Cork.
England connection: Judith is not a name associated with our Cork Englands. The children's names of Michael and Ellen are familiar but could just be names from the Ahern family too.
Margaret England of Abbey St. m: John Murphy 19-11-1811 at St Finbarr’s, Cork.
England connection: There are no Margarets associated with our Cork Englands.
Mary England bap: 24-4-1813 at St Finbarr’s, Cork. The parents were John England and Ellen Regan. Their son, James bap: 6-2-1816.
England connection: If this John followed convention then his first daughter, Mary, would have been named after the mother's mother. His first son, James, would have been after his own father. But this does not link him to our Cork Englands although we recognise John and James as names used in our line.
Thomas England bap: 30-6-1842 at St Finbarr’s, Cork. His parents were Patrick and Mary England.
England connection: There is no direct connection we can make as we don't know of a Patrick and Mary England. However, with this date, we might be on the third generation of Englands from Thomas and Honora, and the mix of name convention from the wife's line might have come into play depending on the number of children that our England unknown cousins had. So, Thomas is a name we recognise strongly but we can't link this one to our line at present.
Mary England m: John McCarthy 4-11-1854 and their children were Bartholomew, bap:21-7-1855, Margaret, bap: 23-8-1857 and Mary, bap: 3-4-1860 all at St. Finbarr’s, Cork.
England connection: We can make no direct link to this Mary England at this date in Cork. Edward England's last daughter was named Emily Mary England and would have been aged 17 at this time.

St Mary's Cork

This church predates the present Catholic Cathedral, and was known as the cathedral in Thomas and Honora's time. They had their children baptised there. It was built in the 1730s and was known as the North Cathedral. But the newer Cathedral, St Mary's and St Anne's, was built on its site and dedicated in 1808. Their son, Bishop John England was ordained a priest there before going to Bandon and then the USA as a Bishop in 1820.

Honora England and Edward Scanlon wit: to the marriage of Denis McCarthy and Catherine Murphy 23-1-1813 at St Mary’s, Cork.
Name Connection: Honora was still alive in 1813 but the next generation of our line that had more Honoras, probably named in her memory, were not born at this time, so this might be her.
James England m: Ann Shea. wit: John Boyde and Mary Shea 15-9-1823, St Mary’s, Cork.
England connection: We have no records of James England born to Thomas and Honora (1805) except his baptism. This might be our James at 18 getting married but the witnesses are not people we recognise, so the connection is weaker.

Other families and the Englands

The Hierlithy Family Connection?

Note: we don't know if these Hierlithys are related but the name crops up with Englands regularly.

1. John Hierlihy m: Mary England 19-2-1792. wit: James England and Patrick Cobert at St Finbarr’s, Cork. Their children were: Mary, bap: 1-1-1793, James, bap: 2-12-1796, John, bap:24-10-1800, Ellen, bap:6-2-1803 and Betty, bap: 29-7-1805 all at St. Finbarr’s, Cork.

England connection: Mary is not a name associated directly with the Cork England line but might have come via a wife's family naming convention. This James is a contemporary of Thomas and Honora and they named their seventh and last son James (bap:1805) whereas this couple named their firstborn son James, likely after John Hielithy's father. 
2. Gerard/Gerald England of Sommertown, Cork City  m: Ellen Hierlihy 6-11-1797 at St. Finbarr’s, Cork wit: James and Timothy England. Residence of Togher, Cork City. Their children: John England bap: 30-6-1801 and Mary England bap: 5-11-1806.
England connection: Gerard/Gerald is not associated with our Cork England line but might have come via a wife's family naming convention depending on how many brothers and sisters he had. The same is true of Mary. But it would seem too much of a coincidence that a John Hierlithy married a Mary England, same church, within a few years. Were John and Ellen Hierlithy related, were Mary and Gerard/Gerald England related? James and Timothy are contemporary with our Thomas England, might they be his lost brothers? or cousins?
3. Mary England of Togher, Cork City, bap: 5-12-1806. The father was Garret (Gerard, Gerrald?) England and the mother was Ellen Herlihy. (see above)

4. James England and Mary Hierlihy were sponsors at the baptism of Michael Ahern bap:11-9-1811 whose father was John Ahern and the mother was Judith England from Tocher. [Togher] Cork city.
England connection: It would seem that this James England and Judith England knew one another, but our line doesn't have these names associated together. Judith England is unknown to our line.
 5. Mary England m: Cornelius Hierlihy and their children were Patrick bap: 2-2-1829, Margaret bap: 10-5-1830, James bap: 22-9-1832 and John bap:17-6-1835 all at St Finbarr’s, Cork.
England connection: Apart from the surname, we know of no connection between Mary England and our line at this date. The names James and John are known in our line though.
6. James England was a sponsor to Mary Herlihy bap: 9-11-1841.
England connection: We do not know of a James England of our line at this date but then we stopped having any information about our James England in 1805.
The Barry family connection.

Note: we don't know if these Barrys are related to each other but the name appears with the Englands on several occasions.

1. John England was a sponsor at the baptism of Ellr (Elleanor) Barry at St Peter and Paul’s, Cork, 11-3-1781.
England connection: Thomas and Honora called their firstborn son John (bap: 1786) but this John is a contemporary of Thomas and Honora so maybe his brother? Also later in 1813, Anne daughter of Thomas and Honora married a Barry. Is this the same family and was the connection to the Cork Englands a long standing one?
2. Ellen England m: James Barry, 9-2-1779, at St Mary’s, Cork. wit: James Barry and John England.
England connection: Thomas and Honora named their second daughter, Ellen, (bap:1795) and their firstborn son John (bap: 1786) This John is a contemporary of Thomas and Honora so maybe his brother? Also note the Barry family connection as Anne, Thomas and Honora's 1st daughter married M.J.Barry in 1813.
3. Thomas England and Ellen Barry are wit: Thomas Hooper and Mary Barry, 27-7-1802.
England connection: This could be our Thomas England who was still alive in 1802. His son, Thomas, would be too young. It may be unconnected, of course, except for the Barry connection to Englands in Cork. Was Ellen Barry Mary's mother, sister or cousin perhaps?

The Falvey family connection 

“Another of the Bishop’s sisters married a Falvey from Innishannon and some of their direct descendants live in Bandon today.” (Bandon Parish Journal Date?)
England connection: The Bishop’s sisters were Anne who married Michael Barry, Elizabeth became a nun, Joanna Monica who died in Charleston. That leaves Ellen, the twin? There was a connection between the Englands and the Falveys. At Thomas the architect’s baptism one of the sponsors was an Anne Falvey. Also, Richard Hussey bap 27-4-1830: Thomas England and a Margaret Falvey were the sponsors, but we're not sure where this baptism took place.
Places and Englands

Englands of Cloyne

Michael England m: Mary Haynes 18-1-1812/18-11-1811? at St Mary’s, Cork. Wit: John Sweeney and Timothy Lyons.
England connection:  It is important that this Michael moved to Cloyne if the slight changes in the name of his wife (Haynes/Hynes) are accepted as transcription errors (see below). Michael is a name that features in our England line).
On the 15-12-1819 John England b: in Aghada, Cloyne to Michael England and Mary Hynes.  The sponsors were John Gasey and Mrs Dormer?

Lucy England b: to Michael and Mary Hynes in Aghada. The sponsors: John Looney and Elizabeth Cormer, 1-6-1821.
This is of interest to our line as the  Rev Thomas and Rev Henry England that featured in the blog here of 6th March, and were said to be nephews of Bishop John and came from County Cloyne. We can not make any further connections to this Michael England, but these Englands moved from Cork to Cloyne just as our relatives of Thomas and Henry did.

Englands of Bandon

Some of our line lived in Bandon so we are interested in Englands from Bandon although we reckon our line moved from there to Wales in the late 19th century.

An Honora England was a sponsor at the bap: of William O’Sullivan at Bandon, Cork 9-1-1850/1856?

“On Monday the wife of Mr James England of Bandon gave birth to the extraordinary number of four children, three of whom, together with the mother, are doing well.”[Skibereen and West Carbery Eagle, 21-5-1864 and Cork Constitution, 24-5-1864]

1870 William George England b: at Bandon. [Ancestry]

James England, Bridge St, Bandon charged with having been drunk the previous evening and having a loaded revolver in his possession fined 10s and costs. James complained that a number of rings was taken from him but only four had been returned. Sergeant Flyn said there were only four rings. [Cork Constitution, 16-6-1886]

Englands of County Tipperary

We are interested in Tipperary Englands as our Thomas England (1785 marriage) was said to come from Tipperary and have had 2 brothers and sisters, although we haven't been able to connect our line with any Tipperary Englands so far.

Benjamin England married Catherine Bannon in Bonagortbaun, Bourney Parish in 1841. The couple had 3 children - Margaret, Ellen, and Catherine, all born in Bourney Parish between 1842 and 1846. By 1861 Catherine and the 3 girls were living in Kent, England. I am trying to find out if Benjamin died in Ireland or if he and Catherine divorced. Any information on this family while they lived in Ireland would be greatly appreciated. Veronica [See Message Board: Curious Fox – County Tipperary – Villages with less than 5 entries]

Miss England, daughter of Mr James England, Tipperary, at the taking of religious vows at the Convent of Mercy, Tipperary. [Cork Examiner, 9-4-1869]

John England m: Tiny Cagney on 13-8-1885 at Thurles Cathedral, County Tipperary. He was the son of the late Joseph England of Ballyorban. Tiny was the youngest daughter of the late Joseph Cagney, Glenfield, Kilmallock. The celebrant was the Rev.John Hallinan.

Englands of County Clare

The Clare Englands have done extensive research into their line and there is some overlap with names with our line. However, at some point their family became Protestant while ours was always Catholic as we understood. They have a strong military presence and there were times when Catholics were not allowed in that profession. It was known for families to change religion to enter 'forbidden' professions. Also, at times it was not permitted for Catholics to own land, so there was a practice in families for one member to change religion to keep the land in the family for the benefit of all. See Appendix 10 at : www.anthonymaitland.com/chadapdx.htm#App10 for some research on the Clare Englands. Also see:http://teamapproach.ca/tal/youngs/YoungEngland.html We haven't been able to establish a definite link with these Englands so far.

"Died at Kildysart, Co. Clare, Mrs England, wife of Mr Thomas England, jun. of Limerick, merchant" [Saunders' News Letter, 15-6-1806]

Englands of Limerick

We found these because of some similar names being used.

In 1792 there was a Thomas England of Limerick at a meeting of Roman Catholics petitioning for a repeal of the Penal Laws. A Richard England was also present at the meeting. [The Dublin Evening Post, 10-1-1792 and 21-1-1792] 

"Bankrupt. Thomas England of Limerick ? chandler." [27-11-1810][Don't have the paper]

Joseph England d: on 31-1-1868 and was buried in an England family grave at St Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork city. The owner of the grave was John England, Bank Place, Killmallock. County Limerick.
Mary Josephine England (child) d: 24-12-1884 and was buried in the same grave in St Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork city.
Elizabeth England of Derby Cottage, Blackrock died on the 22-4-1916, aged 53, and was buried at St Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork city in this family grave.
Joseph Mary England died on the 2-1-1928, aged 40, and was buried at St Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork city in this family grave.
Isabel England died on the 2-2-1988, aged 92 at Derbyshire Cottage Hospital. Her home address was 13, Tusker Avenue, Derbyshire, England. She was buried at St Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork city in this family grave.

Welsh Englands

Note: Our Cork line of Englands moved to Cardiff, Wales, when Patrick Joseph England married and lived there (c 1904). He had moved out of Ireland to England. He was in Hull in 1901, for example.


Josephine Mary England b:1906 in Cardiff
England connection: We have no record of this child being one of PJ England and his wife Josephine Walsh, but the name, Josephine is a family name from this time and their firstborn daughter was called Josephine in 1905. There was a gap until their next child, Patrick in 1908.
Patricia E. England was born in Cardiff in 1929 to a mother whose last name was Walsh.
England connection: We have no direct connection to this child that we know although Patricia, England, and Walsh are all part of the family names by this time.
Dr England of the ambulance corps was mentioned in the Hull Daily Mail. (19-1-1943)
(Our Dr Tom England was in the ambulance service during the war but he served in Cardiff so this item is strange to us.)

Other Englands - no connections

Note: there is too little information about time, place and names to begin to link these Englands apart from the name itself.

James England and Jeremiah Buckly were wit: to Michael Buckley and Catherine Murphy, 2-10-1784.

Mary Catherine England estimated birth year of 1794 died in Cork in 1878. [Ancestry]

Elizabeth England married on the 8-11-1796. wit: Richard Shea and Alice Stack.

Bridget England of Half Moon St, Cork m: Matthew Mehigan 24-1-1810 and wit: John England.

Edmond England and Michael Murphy were wit: John Sullivan and Mary Connor 27-1-1813.

Bridget England bap: 6-2-1816. The parents were John England and Ellen Regan.

Francis, son of Mary England and Thomas Bryne bap: 9-9-1816.

Thomas N. England and James Daly were wit: Joseph Dunbar and ? Murray, 12-9-1822.

Thomas England bap: 7-5-1823. His parents were John England and Mary Ervin.

Thomas England b:6-6-1845, bap: 6-7-1845 at St Peter and Paul’s, Cork. His parents were Edward England and Bess Graham.

John England aged 40, from Ireland, was living in New York Ward 14, District 2 New York. He was married to Honora England. Their three children were William, 8 Catharine, 6 and John, 2. (1860 USA Federal Census)
John England with an estimated b: 1820 died in Cork, 1866 aged 66.

Birth of Martha Jane England in Youghal, County Cork, 1868.

A Philip Joseph England, formerly of Tavistock Square, of Brownswood Park, Queens Rd Hornsey, m: Mary Anne (Minnie) Patrick at St Barnabus Church, Addison Rd, by the Rev. Dr Francis Hessey on 21-12-1871. (Morning Advertiser, London) St Barnabus Church is an Anglican church in Kennsington.

A Philip Joseph England was living in Marylebone, London in 1875, in Clarendon Square.

Bridget England b: 24-6-1881. bap:1-7-1881. Her parents were Michael England and Bridget Manix. The sponsors were Thomas Baldwin and Margaret Barry.

Francis England b:4-10-1889 and bap:11-10-1889 at St Peter and Paul, Cork. The parents were Michael England and Bridget Manix and the sponsors were Denis Murphy and Mary Cotter.

John England d: 13-5-1888 of South Terrace, Co. Cork. Probate was granted to Victoria Newnan of the same place, spinster. Effects of £590. 15s

There was an Edward England living at Winter’s Hill, Cork in 1894. (Freeman’s Journal, Dublin)

John England m: Mary McCarthy on 16-10-1898. Their children were Michael John bap: 29-3-1900 and John bap: 9-12-1901 both at St Finbarr’s, Cork

Footnotes

[1] Irish Naming Convention: See www.ancestralfindings.com/irish-naming-patterns-discover-irish-origins-names-family/

[2] Guilday - The Life and Times of Bishop England


Place Names

St Finbarr's Cork: the oldest Catholic church still in use in Cork City. It was built in 1766 and extended in 1809. Inside, the altar has a sculpture of the Dead Christ created by John Hogan.

Limerick: a city in County Limerick. It is about sixty miles north of Cork City.

Sommertown: in the suburb of Wilton, Cork City. A notable landmark of Wilton was St Finbarr’s cemetery. Togher is an area east of Wilton.

Kildysart: a village in County Clare thirty seven miles west of Limerick City.

Aghada: a small fishing town south east of Cork City.

Cloyne: a small town to the south east of Middleton in eastern County Cork. The Diocese of Cloyne includes such places as Aghada, Fermoy, Killavullen, Macroom and Youghal.

Bourney: a parish in County Tipperary four and a half miles from Roscrea.
Bandon: a town in County Cork nineteen miles south west of Cork City.

Kilmallock: a town in County Limerick near the border with County Cork. Cork city is forty four miles away.

Thurles: a town in County Tipperary. It is 72 miles from Cork City.

South Terrace: an area very close to Cork city centre. It is east of St. Finbarr’s cathedral.

Innishannon: a large village on the main Cork (14 miles) to Bandon (5 miles) road.